The original German interview https://www.hagalil.com/2025/12/ahmed-albaba/
Palestinian social scientist Dr. Ahmed Albaba on the democratization of Palestinian society and the importance of fighting anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism
The interview was conducted by historian Dr. Verena Buser in Berlin in the summer of 2025.
Verena Buser: Dear Ahmed, I'm so glad you're here. Could you please introduce yourself?
Ahmed Albaba: Yes. My name is Ahmad Albaba. I was born and raised in a so-called refugee camp in the West Bank, but I prefer the term Judea and Samaria for good reason. I can elaborate on that if desired. I studied psychology there, and then I came to Germany. In Germany, I earned my master's degree and a doctorate in social sciences. My research focuses on the collective memory of Palestinian families in the refugee camps in the West Bank. But I have also been active in several research projects in Israel, the West Bank, and Jordan.
My research led to a shift in my perspective. I reflected on my own biography, my personal history, and asked myself: What prevents us Palestinians from having a democracy? I concluded that there are two ways of thinking within Palestinian communities. Or rather, two projects. The first is a development project, focusing on everyday life. People want basic things like a good job, a good family, a decent home, and so on. They want to develop society and lead normal lives.
On the other hand, there is another project. I call it the resistance project, or rather, this name is well-known, and it is based on the "Palestinian cause." The goal is to liberate Palestinians from the Jews. In other words, it aims at struggle and is based on an ideology of hatred, also against the West, but above all against Israel, against Jews, and against Zionism.
Through my research, but also through my reflection on my own history, biography, and my family's history, I am convinced that the second project is a major obstacle to the democratization of Palestinian society in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. It is also a major obstacle to the secularization and modernization of Palestinian society. It is important for me to emphasize that I do not intend to offend anyone when I say that the "Palestinian cause" is an obstacle for us Palestinians. What I actually mean is that we Palestinians now have a great opportunity to free ourselves from these ideologies and also to modernize, secularize, and democratize our society. But to do this, we must abandon this struggle, this project of resistance, which is also a project of terror.
My experience shows me that such statements hurt many Palestinians. They feel attacked when you say them. But it's actually not fundamentally against Palestinians or against anyone. Quite the opposite. It's for Palestinians, for Palestinian society. I wish this society the best and want to do something for it. My words and my actions are my contribution. One is so trapped in this tradition of the "Palestinian cause." It's like a religion. People don't always act rationally, but rather rationally based on values. And when one acts rationally based on values, there's a risk that the outcome, the results, won't be in one's own best interest. But my approach is that we think rationally, pragmatically, and in doing so, we can modernize and democratize our society.
Verena Buser: Can you explain to me how the “Palestinian cause” hinders democratization or secularization processes?
Ahmed Albaba: The “Palestinian cause” is created by the Arab world. And the representatives of this “Palestinian cause” are Palestinian organizations that were originally founded by Arabs. Specifically, I'm referring to the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). It was founded in 1964 by Gamal Abdel Nasser. At that time, there was no Israeli occupation. The goal was to fight against and destroy the “Zionist project.” That was in the 1960s; now it's 2025. But the language hasn't changed. We can't keep thinking as if we were in the 1960s or the 1970s. We need a new language. We can't keep talking about the “struggle against Zionism” and the “struggle against Israel,” the “struggle against Jews,” as many factions of the PLO and also of political Islam do. This is a major obstacle because the younger generation does not strive for prosperity, progress, economic goals, careers, or things that are normal in the Western world; instead, the new generation strives to fight against Zionism, against Israel, against the Jews.
This struggle takes place on various levels, including through Palestinian intellectuals. Academics, artists, everyone is involved. Instead of addressing the real problems of society, they create an enemy image and fight against that enemy image. And this struggle is costing us dearly. Essentially, the "Palestinian cause" operates on three levels. On the physical level, the goal is to physically eliminate Jews. There's this fantasy that by eliminating Jews, one liberates oneself. On the next level, the narrative level, are the contributions of academics, artists, and historians. They attempt to establish a narrative in which Jews are absent, that is, to eliminate Jews on a narrative level. That's why I say I come from Judea and Samaria, because by doing so, I acknowledge that this territory has a history, a Jewish history. The West Bank is a term established by the British Mandate administration. So, the British created the term "East Bank," and with it, the term "West Bank," which the Jordanians adopted, and then the Palestinians as well. But if you look closely, the term "West Bank" is actually new. Secondly, it's not a name. "West Bank" is a designation, not a name. And Judea and Samaria—that's a term with a history, which also shows that we have a very long history. And if we abandon that, we abandon a very important part of our identity. And in order to develop identity, in my opinion, we must acknowledge this Jewish component of our history, and not only acknowledge it but also integrate it into our cultural and humanistic identity. We are Arabs, we are Muslims, we are Christians. Yes, but we have this Jewish tradition, this Jewish heritage, and we must integrate it into our identity.
To be more specific: In Jericho, there are the ruins of Hisham's Palace. Students should be taken there to show them that we have an Islamic history. But about five kilometers away lies Herod's Palace, and nobody goes there. And I find that a disgrace. You have a great history, you have a great tradition, you have a very, very old history. Why should we deny that? It's not good for our culture, for our identity, or for our humanistic identity. So, this isn't directed against anyone; it's an enrichment for us Palestinians.
Verena Buser: So is this resistance project also about a lack of ideological critique?
Ahmed Albaba: The resistance project is actually a terrorist project. They try to legitimize this terror by using a nice-sounding word, "resistance project," but in reality, it's a justification and legitimization of terror. But it's not actually in the Palestinians' interest. It distracts us from our real problems. We have many problems in Palestinian society, but because this project exists, this so-called resistance project, there's no capacity left to address the real problems and work on solutions. We have economic problems. We also have patriarchal structures. Honor killings still occur. We need a solution. And the academics and the artists and so on, they don't care about these problems. If there is an art project, it's about occupation and how to develop a narrative against the Zionist narrative. But do we really need that? To me, it's a pseudo-occupation. We need solutions for the real, genuine problems in society.
Verena Buser: The image of Palestinians is currently heavily influenced by so-called pro-Palestinian demonstrations. Your statements, in contrast, are very nuanced. What do you think is the reason you could be described as an "unheard Palestinian voice"?
Ahmed Albaba: Well, first of all, I think it's my own fault that my voice isn't loud. But I also have good reasons why my voice is quieter. Because of this "Palestinian cause," because of the resistance project, because people believe, especially young people, that if they fight against Zionism or against Israel on those three levels—the physical, narrative, and moral levels—then they're on the right side of history. And that gives them the justification, the legitimacy for terrorist attacks, for denial, and also for insults. Palestinians know this because we grew up with this cause. I was like that too. I remember, I was very young, maybe 18 or 19 years old. And someone was talking about a journalist whom he called a Palestinian collaborator, meaning he was working "with the Jews or with Israel" and was therefore a "traitor." And the colleague ordered me to take the journalist's camera away. I went up to him and took his camera away. The man was so afraid of me. It was unbelievable , because he knew perfectly well that I wasn't alone and that if things came to a physical altercation, other people would come and beat him up.
And I'm experiencing the same thing today. Today, I'm the journalist who's afraid of 18-year-olds, 16-year-old Palestinians who believe that if they beat me up, kill me, or ruin my reputation, they're doing something good for the "Palestinian cause." That's how they think. I thought that way too when I was their age, and I believe we urgently need to change that. It has to stop immediately. Because if the next generation thinks like that, then we really have no chance for development, for democracy, for modernization. I believe that for many Palestinians who now have jobs in Israel, for example, Israel isn't the problem. Quite the opposite, Israel is the solution for them because it allows them to improve and establish their economic situation.
Verena Buser: What motivates you to actively fight against antisemitism?
Ahmed Albaba: I believe it is the most important thing of all that we Palestinians fight against antisemitism and anti-Zionism, because antisemitism is the reason why these hateful ideologies are so widespread and entrenched among us. And I believe that if we work against this hatred—I know it's not easy, but we have to work to make this hatred disappear—then if this hatred disappears, we can't be so easily manipulated. These days, hatred against Israel is very widespread, deeply rooted in society. And if you activate this hatred, you can quickly mobilize people for terrorist attacks. Therefore, combating antisemitism is important not only for Palestinians, but for the whole world.
Antisemitism is a hate ideology that divides entire societies. It is only a matter of time before a society collapses, before the cohesion between people breaks down, when antisemitism becomes an everyday phenomenon. Then social peace collapses. And history shows this gradually, and not just since 1948 in the Arab world, when anti-Zionism became an ideology. As a consequence, almost all Jews in the Arab world were expelled. And this had negative repercussions for Arab societies. There were wonderful people who contributed greatly to society, for example in Egypt. There were many artists, many people who made important economic contributions. Today, there are no Jewish voices left in Egypt. The same is true for all Arab countries, for Syria and Jordan as well. Antisemitism and anti-Zionism are dangerous ideologies that erode society from within.
Verena Buser: Thank you very much for the interview.
Dr. Albaba's dissertation, with which he received his doctorate from the University of Göttingen, is available online and is scheduled to be published as a book soon: Ahmed Albaba, Palestinian Families in the Refugee Camps in the West Bank, Diss. Phil. Georg-August-University Göttingen, Göttingen 2020.
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